Who's got the balls to do a 09 ?

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 6:57 am

I was the first I new of to do a 450 back in 02 and I was the first to do a gen 4 450 in 04 but this stud is out of energy and laid to pasture and should probably be put down!

Who's going to be the stud of the month?

Exnav · Post by **Exnav** » October 13th, 2008, 8:29 am

What's the problem??? Your local NAPA close up and you have no duct tape and permatex supplier?

Post by **AlisoBob** » October 13th, 2008, 8:38 am

Exnav wrote:What's the problem??? Your local NAPA close up and you have no duct tape and permatex supplier?

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 10:26 am

Exnav wrote:What's the problem??? Your local NAPA close up and you have no duct tape and permatex supplier?

Dougie it's time to move up from the 3400 BC GEN 1 to a 21st century machine.
BE A STUD AND DO IT!

Exnav · Post by **Exnav** » October 13th, 2008, 10:52 am

teemtrubble will get my business when I can afford to step up and unless people decide to buy more speed parts, that isn't likely to happen soon.

I might be motivated to buy ahead of that time if Mike would put out a limited edition duct tape, permatex, sugar sand machine

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 10:58 am

I'm plannning out the purchase of a new '09. But I plan on leaving it stock... once the motor goes, it will be gen-5 time

I may have to sell the gen-4 and gen-1 to get it

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 11:23 am

dannygraves wrote:I'm plannning out the purchase of a new '09. But I plan on leaving it stock... once the motor goes, it will be gen-5 time
I may have to sell the gen-4 and gen-1 to get it

How did your gen 4 turn out? What do you like and not like. Mine did not track that well up front. Hopefully the gen 5 will have the bike tracking on rails like the GEN 4 was advertised to do but really did not. Frank Thomas who is Jason Thomas's father told me the GEN 4 was very mediocre up front in tracking and if a pro of his level say's it is it must be that way I would think.

Hopefully the new 5th gen will trully be better in all regards for the most part to all gen 3's. THEY LOOK GREAT!

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 12:14 pm

Slow old Fart wrote:
dannygraves wrote:I'm plannning out the purchase of a new '09. But I plan on leaving it stock... once the motor goes, it will be gen-5 time
I may have to sell the gen-4 and gen-1 to get it
How did your gen 4 turn out? What do you like and not like. Mine did not track that well up front. Hopefully the gen 5 will have the bike tracking on rails like the GEN 4 was advertised to do but really did not. Frank Thomas who is Jason Thomas's father told me the GEN 4 was very mediocre up front in tracking and if a pro of his level say's it is it must be that way I would think.

Hopefully the new 5th gen will trully be better in all regards for the most part to all gen 3's. THEY LOOK GREAT!

you know, we don't always agree, but you hit the nail on the head. the gen-4 tracks like dog shit! I'm lucky to be alive after a trip through a gravel wash in 4th on a '90 trans with 14/48 gearing where in my gen-1 I went through the same gravel washin 5th on my wider '86 gear ratio on 14/47 gears and topped the bike out without so much as a wobble.
the chassis sucks ass in the soft stuff, I don't even want to take it to the dunes after hitting the baby dunes at apex and again being lucky to be alive with how shaky it is. At speed in soft stuff the front wants to buckle, turn the bars and kick your ass off. I'm constantly death gripping the thing where on my gen-1 I cruise through the soft stuff relaxed like I'm on a softtail on the freeway.
The thing turns on a dime though. took it to the MX track and it did very well. I think I just have to remember it was degigned for MX, not open desert.
the seat is hard like my gen-1 and I don't care for the ergos. the gen-3 has a bitchen seat and I feel better on it. On the gen-4 I'm always moving my bars up, down, back, forth and can't get it to feel right.

Plus, my biggest problem with the gen-4 is the conversion itself. I don't care who you are or how good you are a gen-4 doesn't come out as clean as the previous 3 gens. the frame, sure, but the tank, hose routing, wiring, airbox, etc. all comes out like dog shit by comparison. my gen-3 can fit a full sized plug w/o modding the tank, no airbox mod, plumbing w/ factory 500 hoses, etc. etc.
IF the gen-5 rides better and feels better, it might be worth the effort of a difficult conversion, but if its anything like the gen-4 crf250r chassis, I'll forget about it.

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 12:41 pm

dannygraves wrote:
Slow old Fart wrote:
dannygraves wrote:I'm plannning out the purchase of a new '09. But I plan on leaving it stock... once the motor goes, it will be gen-5 time
I may have to sell the gen-4 and gen-1 to get it
How did your gen 4 turn out? What do you like and not like. Mine did not track that well up front. Hopefully the gen 5 will have the bike tracking on rails like the GEN 4 was advertised to do but really did not. Frank Thomas who is Jason Thomas's father told me the GEN 4 was very mediocre up front in tracking and if a pro of his level say's it is it must be that way I would think.

Hopefully the new 5th gen will trully be better in all regards for the most part to all gen 3's. THEY LOOK GREAT!
you know, we don't always agree, but you hit the nail on the head. the gen-4 tracks like dog shit! I'm lucky to be alive after a trip through a gravel wash in 4th on a '90 trans with 14/48 gearing where in my gen-1 I went through the same gravel washin 5th on my wider '86 gear ratio on 14/47 gears and topped the bike out without so much as a wobble.
the chassis sucks ass in the soft stuff, I don't even want to take it to the dunes after hitting the baby dunes at apex and again being lucky to be alive with how shaky it is. At speed in soft stuff the front wants to buckle, turn the bars and kick your ass off. I'm constantly death gripping the thing where on my gen-1 I cruise through the soft stuff relaxed like I'm on a softtail on the freeway.
The thing turns on a dime though. took it to the MX track and it did very well. I think I just have to remember it was degigned for MX, not open desert.
the seat is hard like my gen-1 and I don't care for the ergos. the gen-3 has a bitchen seat and I feel better on it. On the gen-4 I'm always moving my bars up, down, back, forth and can't get it to feel right.
Plus, my biggest problem with the gen-4 is the conversion itself. I don't care who you are or how good you are a gen-4 doesn't come out as clean as the previous 3 gens. the frame, sure, but the tank, hose routing, wiring, airbox, etc. all comes out like dog shit by comparison. my gen-3 can fit a full sized plug w/o modding the tank, no airbox mod, plumbing w/ factory 500 hoses, etc. etc.
IF the gen-5 rides better and feels better, it might be worth the effort of a difficult conversion, but if its anything like the gen-4 crf250r chassis, I'll forget about it.

Your avatar has become tiresome!

That GEN 4 pissed me off too. Frank Thomas told me I had to have it and then everybody was raving about it no mention of the front end problem until after I built it. Little front end stability in loose terrain you can't hold a live with it. My 05 CRf450 conversion is really clean, can remove plug with stock tank and no tank mode. I thought it is better than a GEN 3 250 or 450 in cleaness when complete. For a tall rider in loose terrain I like the GEN3 450 the best. It has high speed attributes that the GEN 3 250 cannot match and is much more sure footed up front than a GEN 1 250 when correctly setup. The GEN 3 250 deflects more off course in high speed running. But over all is better but for me I like the old pig 450.

One thing you can do on the gen 4 is try and kick the front end out a little but I believe the old 04 CRf 250 has the old style fork with the 24 rather than the 05 22 mm offset? I hunted the 04 forks down to try and fix some of the problem with my 05.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 12:49 pm

yeah, riding my gen-4 after completion was more disappointing than my wifes lack of sex drive after the vowes!

so I serviced the forks and shock, fixed the messed up adjuster and got it all dialed. stock spring rate is almost perfect for my weight, so there was no need to re spring, and I have the sag set a little low to help the stability... still sucks.
this bike also sucks in the woops compared to my gen-1, the rear swaps all over the place and no matter what I do I can't get it to float. At apex we have very tall nasty woops for miles and miles and when I try to haul through those on teh gen-4 I'm either painfully slow going up and down each one, or going waaayyy too fast trying to get it to float and bouncing around like a rag doll while trying my hardest to keep it strait and not go over the bars. I think that is part of the same problem.
I do wonder if the X model has the same problem...

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 12:56 pm

dannygraves wrote:yeah, riding my gen-4 after completion was more disappointing than my wifes lack of sex drive after the vowes!
so I serviced the forks and shock, fixed the messed up adjuster and got it all dialed. stock spring rate is almost perfect for my weight, so there was no need to re spring, and I have the sag set a little low to help the stability... still sucks.
this bike also sucks in the woops compared to my gen-1, the rear swaps all over the place and no matter what I do I can't get it to float. At apex we have very tall nasty woops for miles and miles and when I try to haul through those on teh gen-4 I'm either painfully slow going up and down each one, or going waaayyy too fast trying to get it to float and bouncing around like a rag doll while trying my hardest to keep it strait and not go over the bars. I think that is part of the same problem.
I do wonder if the X model has the same problem...

That goes to tell you how full of chit Service honda is. They sell whatever they can get there hands on and then say it is the best. I do believe more than likely a 05 CRF 450 is a bit better than a 04 CRF250 for high speed. 250's and 125 's are designed for changing direction on a dime and not high speed. 500's are for ripping, people who use 500's for tight stuff I believe are missing the point but to each his own.

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 12:58 pm

Slow old Fart wrote:
dannygraves wrote:yeah, riding my gen-4 after completion was more disappointing than my wifes lack of sex drive after the vowes!
so I serviced the forks and shock, fixed the messed up adjuster and got it all dialed. stock spring rate is almost perfect for my weight, so there was no need to re spring, and I have the sag set a little low to help the stability... still sucks.
this bike also sucks in the woops compared to my gen-1, the rear swaps all over the place and no matter what I do I can't get it to float. At apex we have very tall nasty woops for miles and miles and when I try to haul through those on teh gen-4 I'm either painfully slow going up and down each one, or going waaayyy too fast trying to get it to float and bouncing around like a rag doll while trying my hardest to keep it strait and not go over the bars. I think that is part of the same problem.
I do wonder if the X model has the same problem...
That goes to tell you how full of chit Service honda is. They sell whatever they can get there hands on and then say it is the best. I do believe more than likely a 05 CRF 450 is a bit better than a 04 CRF250 it was more designed for high speed. 250's and 125 's are designed for changing direction on a dime and not high speed. %00's are for ripping people who use 500's for tight stuff I believe are missing the point but to each his own.

Balaclava · Post by **Balaclava** » October 13th, 2008, 12:58 pm

for the brief amount of time i had on my gen3 450, i rode in the sand, and that bike just goes wherever you want it to. Aim straight ahead and go straight ahead, and pullin complete 360's at the peak of steep hills was not a problem, 0 trackin issues, and zero issues in the air other then my brake lever being to close to the case,and in the trails i was murdering the 450's i rode with, other then that...i LOVED IT!...

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 1:02 pm

Balaclava wrote:for the brief amount of time i had on my gen3 450, i rode in the sand, and that bike just goes wherever you want it to. Aim straight ahead and go straight ahead, and pullin complete 360's at the peak of steep hills was not a problem, 0 trackin issues, and zero issues in the air other then my brake lever being to close to the case,and in the trails i was murdering the 450's i rode with, other then that...i LOVED IT!...

I believe the GEN3 450 set up right is the best 500 conversion to do for larger riders in sand. It has a stability unmatched by all others and once you put 20mm clamps om it it steers good but not great but real acceptable.

Balaclava · Post by **Balaclava** » October 13th, 2008, 1:07 pm

steers alright...the ass end is still jumpy here and there but going straight in sand is childs play...

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 1:11 pm

dannygraves wrote:I'm plannning out the purchase of a new '09. But I plan on leaving it stock... once the motor goes, it will be gen-5 time
I may have to sell the gen-4 and gen-1 to get it

Go ride a GEN 5 before you touch it.

Balaclava · Post by **Balaclava** » October 13th, 2008, 1:13 pm

i agree^^...they look nice but also quite a bit different then what the most of us are used to...especially if you like gen1's...

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 1:14 pm

Ya Justin (MFDB) has a few friends who already bought it. Unfortunately they only ride MX

I want to try to convince Justin to convince them to come out to apex and let us all take a spin on it

Riding one on the MX track won't tell me anything about how it handles in the environment I ride in %90 of the time.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 1:20 pm

Balaclava wrote:i agree^^...they look nice but also quite a bit different then what the most of us are used to...especially if you like gen1's...

yeah, I love my gen-1 in the dunes, infact, the slower steering works better for me because it gives me more control. I can be in 3rd rollin' and turn the bars and gas it and lean real low and flip the bitch right around!

I'm so uncomfortable on the gen-4 that I think I would end up like my buddy Jason this weekend and be pinned under the bike face down looking helpless like tied up calf at the rodeo

Balaclava · Post by **Balaclava** » October 13th, 2008, 1:26 pm

I didnt ride tracks either this year...i just love sand riding, and my cousin rides a gen 1 and absolutely loves it...i think once you get used to them it's hard to like the newer gen's...but it also works two ways, i don't really care for Gen 1 frames...kinda weird...

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 1:27 pm

dannygraves wrote:
Balaclava wrote:i agree^^...they look nice but also quite a bit different then what the most of us are used to...especially if you like gen1's...
yeah, I love my gen-1 in the dunes, infact, the slower steering works better for me because it gives me more control. I can be in 3rd rollin' and turn the bars and gas it and lean real low and flip the bitch right around! I'm so uncomfortable on the gen-4 that I think I would end up like my buddy Jason this weekend and be pinned under the bike face down looking helpless like tied up calf at the rodeo

I do not like how stiff the gen 1 frame is and the front end on the one I rode that jack had was to twitchy. Oddly enough the bike felt lighter than my gen 3 450 but my 450 was way more surefooted.

Balaclava · Post by **Balaclava** » October 13th, 2008, 1:28 pm

^ i agree

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 1:30 pm

Balaclava wrote:I didnt ride tracks either this year...i just love sand riding, and my cousin rides a gen 1 and absolutely loves it...i think once you get used to them it's hard to like the newer gen's...but it also works two ways, i don't really care for Gen 1 frames...kinda weird...

Go ride a correctly setup GEN 3 450. The bikes are considered the best effort honda has made for speed loose terrain riding but for quick reaction motox to slow at derection change. This is why the 250 is a better all arounder but for higher speed stuff a gen 3 450 will eat it alive.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » October 13th, 2008, 1:41 pm

Slow old Fart wrote: I do not like how stiff the gen 1 frame is and the front end on the one I rode that jack had was to twitchy. Oddly enough the bike felt lighter than my gen 3 450 but my 450 was way more surefooted.

are you sure the chassis was in good shape? the gen-1s are notorious for having steering stem bearings that are rusted out (must have had a crappy seal design) so mine got brand new bearings when I was building it. It feels quite the opposite of twitchy and is very forgiving as far as steering is concerned, infact my gen-4 feels twitchy as hell to me by comparison.

Slow old Fart · Post by **Slow old Fart** » October 13th, 2008, 1:56 pm

dannygraves wrote:
Slow old Fart wrote: I do not like how stiff the gen 1 frame is and the front end on the one I rode that jack had was to twitchy. Oddly enough the bike felt lighter than my gen 3 450 but my 450 was way more surefooted.
are you sure the chassis was in good shape? the gen-1s are notorious for having steering stem bearings that are rusted out (must have had a crappy seal design) so mine got brand new bearings when I was building it. It feels quite the opposite of twitchy and is very forgiving as far as steering is concerned, infact my gen-4 feels twitchy as hell to me by comparison.

The chasses does not stick like glue like my 450 does. i have ridden many gen 1 250's and one 500. the front end hunts for a line much more and feels faugue at the bars. The bikes are good for going in a straight line if your legs can take the beating the chasses doles out. If I could fix the steering issues I cannot deal with the rigidness of the frame. The newer GEN 3 's are to rigid for me but not like GEN 1. I guess I am just a girly man.

BannedCR500Riders.com

Who's got the balls to do a 09 ?

Who's got the balls to do a 09 ?