CPI "LIGER" Cylinder project

[rsss396]

Ok guys here some pictures of my cylinder, just snaped some pictures but have not put a degree wheel on the cylinder yet

The cylinder has been cut down 5mm on the bottom side because the piston was to far down the cylinder.
Calvin admitted to miscalculating the cylinder height
So we had to adjust it by removing 5mm of material.
It was spun on a large lathe and did it with a expanding mandrel to keep it square to the bore.

In some of the pictures you can see that the bottom of the intake floor started to window from removing so much material.
This gets filled with the spacer plate that will get shaped to the floor of the intake.

To avoid this their are a couple options.

-Use 86 cases, they are 5mm shorter than the other years.
I should have done this since I do own 86 cases but we did not realize that the piston was going to be 5mm down the bore on my 93 and had already relieved the cases for the larger skirts and the cases had already been relieved for the +6mm stroke on the crank.
Plus we didn't realize 5mm would take us into the floor of the intake.

Second option which I believe is going to be available in December is a different piston with the pin height moved 5mm.
The only bad thing is I do not know how many pistons he has ordered but I will bet that it will not be as many as he has for Sabertooth cylinders which is the style that I am running.
So in the far future you may end up ordering 10 pistons(min order) from wiseco if these cylinders don't take off for the cr500 guys and Calvin quits carrying them.

One advantage(in my opinion) of my setup will be the crankcase compression will be higher.

There were some questions before on the coolant inlet and outlets on these cylinders. I will say that my opinion is still out weather it will flow enough.
The factory inlet is about .680ish the cpi cylinder fittings are about .600 and look like .625 will be easily accommodated.
There is flow directed thru both the cylinder and cylinder head with most of it directed thru the head which makes the most since to me.
Cooling is not a large factor for me since I run alcohol but a gas motor would need some good cooling.
I think if I ran a gas motor for long lengths of time cooling would need to be addressed. I think I would talk to RK Tek about having him machine a head for this cylinder that would have large inlet and outlets.
I do not believe a dual outlet head is available and they do not have head stays.
I do believe these motors should have head stays and I will be looking into fabricating something that will work as a head stay.

You will also notice on a couple picture that the exhaust port has some grinding on it. This is because the port floor has been raised with weld because of the +6mm crank and the fact that the piston will be open to the crankgase area at top dead center. So at BDC the piston crown will sit slightly lower than the bottom of the port, but his is not a big deal because flow is most important before the transfers open.

Season has come to close for me and I have allot of things going on around the house so I am going to be pushing this project off for awhile to take care of them so I may not have any real updates for a while probably toward the end of winter before I get hot and heavy into this.

here the pics

[Rue]

Very !!! keep the pictures and info coming.

[rsss396]

I need to add that the bottom end cases will be coming apart and everything will be blended into the new cylinder and spacer plate.

The bottom end case pictures are after I just removed my Honda cr500 cylinder that I had put back on the cases after all the machine work was done so the Liger cylinder would fit.

The Liger cylinder was not ready for the Labor Day weekend but the cases were so I put my ported aluminum sleeved stock cylinder set up for my +6mm stroked crank.

Did not notice any loss of power because of all the material removed for the Liger cylinder.

[100hp honda]

fawkin badass . wasnt the planing/designing phase been going on for 2 years ???... how does something get miscalculated ? . how many been cranked off the assembly line so far ? wondering if the miscalculation will be corrected for future batches. gonna be a hard sell the the general public if excess machine work/welding is involved. definatly bitchin none the less though

[dubious01]

Thats really cool!
Yup cooling needs an upgrade.
I think it could be done easilly enough without an entire new head from the looks of it.

So I need to find gen 1 chasis, and a long rod motor.... hmmm.
Would it be easier to put a long rod kit on a newer engine?
This thing is gonna need a wide ratio trans I would think, to get the most out of it?


Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.
Cylinders, pistons, plates and heads are now available? $$$?

The KX 500 guys are using an altrenate headstay method for their af frames, here is a link...

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.ph ... 447.0.html

[rsss396]

well the new piston with the lowered pin will take care of all the problems.

Calvin just wasn't aware of the issue until mine because I am the first cr500 to have the cylinder fitted to.

Kind of how things go when you are the first.
This cylinder was made to fit allot of different setups with small changes like adapter plates.

Its not exactly a bolt on piece, the exhaust flange will be about 1/2" forward and the carburetor will be about 5/8" farther back than a stock cylinder so mods will need to be done for it to work

A longer rod would be possible, infact some of the Sabertooths run a
Arctic Cat rod that is much more beefy and is recommended for the nitrous motors or the large pistons.

My Piston will be 97mm but larger pistons are going to be made over 100mm so that would be a good option.

That head stay is what I was thinking about but it will be hard to make it as good as the kx500's because of the bolt pattern.

[rsss396]

Forgot to mention for all the parts in the pictures was 1900.00

cylinder will be ported by me but I will still need to send the cylinder out for coating so that will add 250.00

the reed cage is a Arctic Cat so that will need to be bought along with a custom pipe and carb.

Cylinder head dome comes blank so that needs to be cut along with cases for the larger sleeve.

[dubious01]

cool,
so when you think the new pistons will be available, and when will you have kits ready to go?
total cost for cylinder, piston, head and plate, ported ready to bolt on to my mod cases?


thanks for the great pictures and no BS info...

[100hp honda]

i talked to calvin alot of times along the way. im sure many things changed since first time i called him. frikin cool he put the effort into making a cr500 jug even if it aint a direct bolt on. he did say a head stay version would be available, might of changed his mind though. badass project and should run real well

[rsss396]

The kit should be available now but the piston I think will not be ready until December from wiseco

But I would talk to Calvin himself, if he is in he will normally talk himself to anyone that calls.
CP Industries Inc
601 Delaware St.
Lenapah, OK 74042

Email: cpollet@cpindinc.com

Phone : 918-468-2230

You have to buy thru a dealer but he will answer any questions.


I bought all my parts from Pete at Hybrid Engineering (360-281-2274)

Pete also cut my head and cut ut the cases for the sleeves of the cylinder to drop in.

[Roostius_Maximus]

86 cases would have taken more machine work, smaller od sleeve.

Dude should have cut the base of the cyl on a mill with it centered on a rotary table, could have left material where he cut thru and made room for that material on the adaptor plate or cases if needed.

looks like you can do some more work on the cases at the forward side of the transfers floor to match them to the plate.

nice looking parts tho

[AlisoBob]

For $1900, I would expect it to fit a little better.

[matt_NC]

This is probably a vague question, but how much horsepower will something like that make?

[rsss396]

86 cases would have taken more machine work, smaller od sleeve.

Dude should have cut the base of the cyl on a mill with it centered on a rotary table, could have left material where he cut thru and made room for that material on the adaptor plate or cases if needed.

looks like you can do some more work on the cases at the forward side of the transfers floor to match them to the plate.

nice looking parts tho

well its always easy to arm chair quarter back this on monday.

There are things that would have been done different, but anytime you are the first to try something there will be improvements that could have been done.
Remember this is the first CR500 to done anywhere. The mistakes that Pete, Calvin and I will be laying the foundation for everyone else.
The other two cylinders were done on a Quadzilla bottom end and the other was done on a billet Banshee twin bottom end that they cut in halve and made a single cylinder motor out of.

These cylinders are also being used for snowmobile motors so this was not really a CR500 cylinder.
This is unfortunate for the guys looking for a bolt performance upgrade, they really seam to be made for the racer that will build and adapt the bike for the cylinder.


The front boost port area of the cases will more than likely be epoxied and blended. I will address that once the motor has taken apart to mock things up.

[rsss396]

For $1900, I would expect it to fit a little better.

The new CR piston has fixed the problem, I am using the Sabertooth piston which has the pin 5mm higher so the cylinder had to be cut.

The adapter plate fits well except by the front boost area. The cases will be epoxied and blended.

This cylinder is differant than a cr500 cylinder because of improvemnts that CPI felt were needed to make the cylinder perform.

[Roostius_Maximus]

Didnt mean it as a poke in the eye,

i realize its not finished, just some stuff to look out for.

Should make some power, theres no replacement for displacemnt

[rsss396]

This is probably a vague question, but how much horsepower will something like that make?

typical Sabertooth 500's used on the 250r cases make around 95-110hp measured at the rear wheel.

So I can not give you a dyno number but I see no reason it would perform any less

[rsss396]

Didnt mean it as a poke in the eye,

i realize its not finished, just some stuff to look out for.

Should make some power, theres no replacement for displacemnt

I know you were just suggesting and I know you do allot of machining and fabrication yourself.
So I am sure you know where I am coming from when you stand back at the end of the day and think that I should have done it different.
That's just life, its a constant learning experience.

[britincali]

I love it!!!!!!!!

[hoofarted]

I love it!!!!!!!!

Well you also love sheep vagina (or anus on Wednesdays). So that ain't sayin' much.

[100hp honda]

lets give rsss396 a break. should be thanking him really. alot of guys that purchase this cylinder in the future aint smart enough to figure out the technical glitches, rsss396 will have done all the leg work for them. i thought it should have fit together alittle better also.............. until he said it was a "do it all" cylinder that can be fit to many different motors, then i understood why it wasnt a exact fit. alot of credit to calvin, NOBODY else would have even gave a second thought to making a cr500 cylinder. ya it requires alittle machine work, custom pipe and a few other things but who gives a shit. a true gear head looking for ultimate power wont have any trouble making the pieces fit together. cookie cutter fags that cant change a crank bearing will be forever stuck with a stock honda mill

[lewisclan]

fricken digging it

[100hp honda]

seriously theres a ton of people that would of put it together and scratched their head for 3 months wondering how to make up the 5mm difference . probly alot wouldnt even notice and try to run it as is . sounds like the new piston will solve that problem

[100hp honda]

any idea where port timings will be when its mated to 79mm stroke and new version piston ? wonder where deck height will be ? piston dome and bottom of exhaust floor ?? any chance the cases will need eyebrows for the skirt corners because the change in pin height ? alot of questions that probly have no answer yet

[100hp honda]

dohhh . pin went down, not up. never mind the eyebrow comment. aint thinking clear today