CR250-99 model stator / CDI up grade.

[dubious01]

Its awesome that you guys share all of this info, but now I can't find a 250 system except 02 and newer. LOL
Would a pre 2002 rotor work with the 2002+ stator? then I wouldn't have to slot the plate 10-15 degree's? I am syure with that much movement bot holes need to be elongated, to keep the rotor of the windings as the plate is moving furtther away from center as well, as turning with that much adjustment?

Has the 125 CDI proven to be better with the 250 rotor and stator?

Thanks for any clarification.

[asteroid500]

supply & demand, not so long ago a $100 would land you a complete CDI unit.
Try doing that now.

[dubious01]

I hear ya mate

[stu460]

i have a question,,did i hear right that you have to slot the holes to advance/retard it to suit the 500,or is that only with the analogue systems,i noticed you said just bolt it on to the stock marks,why do we have to slot the holes on some of the 250 ignitions,is it to retard so we can pull some of the advance out of the 250 system.or visa verca

[dannygraves]

the '02+ systems need timing adjustment, the earlier ones just bolt on and go (after milling the plate on the '97-'01 of coarse)

[gregrobo]

the 01 needs timing adjustment

[Shindig]

Is everyone using the 500 coil or the 250?

[hoofarted]

I'm using the 250 coil, as its smaller.

[2strokekyle]

The 500 coil will work just fine.

[DOHCFOX]

I wonder if it would be possible to use a '99 CDI with corresponding plugs in place of the Service Honda digital CDI, as it really looks like the '99 backing plate, coils and pickup are identically situated.

Anyone think so?

[2strokeforever]

i got a 99 cr 250 ignition from kball xxx, thanks for the overnight shipping, and got her hooked up, heres what i think:
does NOT stall easier
i can actually steer through the woods, instead of bouncing in between trees
before the bike felt like i was carrings a 5l jerry can full on the back and front fender, now it feels like its gone
its easyer to start if i start it just after TDC (i always do it that way), but a bit harder if i just kick ( i never do that anyway) (yes i gaped the pulsar on both of them)
a little mellower off the bottom
doesnt feel like its making more power, but it is a lot faster to get it

tried stock timing and full advance, but i was on trails so i couldnt tell the difference between the two
i am using the 500 coil
the temps this weekend are way colder than the last so the mid/top power will be different because of that,
but i keep the pilot/ airscrew adjusted all the time so the easier starting was NOT from a jetting change

i noticed the raised trigger is around 1/4-1/8 inch off on the 250 compared to the 500, i think its throwing the timing out of wack, but then i dont know whats happening in the CDI so maybe it all balances out?

im guessing the 250 flywheel has half or less the inertia of the 500


the 250 CDI is 1/2 inch bigger than stock and the conectors are in the way so i had to "custom" mount it, i was in a rush and i know it looks like shit, but I had to get it done quick so i could ride


heres where the timing is off, but the CDI map maybe is difrent to compensate, but i dont think it is
the keyways are lined up as close as i can get them, but the 250 trigger is advanced compared to the 500, (dammit i shoulda tested full retarded instead of advance)


i used a mexican milling machine to machine the backing plate, it looks shitty but it works decent, i also used a o ring to center the backing plate, but it was too thick so i streched it over the chuck of my drill and used a file to adjust it to the right thickness. i will make a real spacer later out of aluminum or UHMW.
(a mexican milling machine is a die grinder bit in a cordless drill)


if you have a 99- 01 please tell me what works for you
ps i might be interested in selling my 3 month old stock setup (-the coil) for a $175canadian+shipping, or trading it for 03-07 250 setup, or better yet a pvl...(roosty)



rode some more today and noticed my bike idled a lot lower without stalling compared to the 500 setup and practiced the endurox track and the 250 setup is harder to stall and the only thing i like better about the 500 setup is sometimes the heavy flywheel is nice for big logs to rev up and dump the clutch, and let the flywheel launch me over, like a trials rider does
but overall the 250 is way better
right now im running full retarded, because it looks like thats how it should be? and id rather not ping

still cant figure whether it has more or less power because it went from burning hot outside to cold in 1 week so my jetting is probably a little lean, dont have time to check though, gotta ride, and im on trails getting for the race so its not under enough load to burn down by being a little off
but ill get it dialed next weekend

[2strokeforever]

after a lot of messing i figured out that if you set the crank at TDC youll see a line on your flywheel and a line on the stator and a point casted into the case like here but with a flywheel(asteroids picture)




asteroid500 wrote

So youd need to find TDC via the spark plug hole then adjust your stator plate so that the centere of your pick up point on your fly wheel is cental to the stator pick up point.
Doing this will then give you a "STATIC" TDC from were you my choose to time to you OWN or engine builders requirements.

well i put the original 500 ignition and flywheel on and put it at TDC and all the lines lined up, there supposed too. k now for the 250 WITHOUT MOVING THE CRANK i took the 500 off and put the 250 setup on at original timing and what do you know all the lines lined up, even though the pickup was roughly 3-4 mm advanced THE TIMING MARKS LINED UP, so that means the 250 mapping compensates for the pickup being in a different spot

so when we look at rsss396 mapping we see

All flywheels/stator combos were mocked up on a motor and degreed and marked with true TDC.

A solid stationary timing pointer was mounted on the stator off the pickup coil screw.

The degreed TDC mark is aligned with this tab so you can time the motor while looking down at the flywheel instead of the bottom like the factory did.

assuming the 99 map is close to the same as the 2000(BTW does anyone have the 99 map???) that would mean i need to advance 4 degrees to get the same max timing
keep in mind i eyeballed everything so its not perfect, but the way i did it i can guarantee its within a few degrees, because i didnt move the crank
i was running full retarded so now im at stock and ill see how it works on the weekend to see if my logic makes sense, or to see if i just confused myself even more

[Bomberpilot]

so whats now the deal here?

should you slot the holes or not with the 99 250 ignition?
slotting the holes in direction for advancing the timing right - and for the people having problems to imagine this without the engine and ignition in front of them - in which direction should you slot the holes when looking on the ignition like it would be mounted at the bike (picture of this please with some arrows made in paint :-) )?

and now the question: SHOULD YOU ADVANCE IT TO GET THE RIGHT TIMING??? and if yes about how many degrees? (I heard 10 a few times...)

sorry for asking so stupid, but i do not have the engine and the parts here but i am trying to figure out how to do it...

[2strokeforever]

4 deg advance is what (i think) should be best and is what im running, but cant say for sure without a dyno

[Bomberpilot]

thanks.
a still can't follow your calculations exactly...
if i compare the 2000 250 map to the 93 500 map the difference is more 14 degrees instead of 4 degrees... this is one point.
The other point is that for example greg said that he RETARDED the timing by 11 degrees as you said you ADVANCED the timing...

Still trying to put everything together in my brain

It would be really easy if you guys could make a picture of the stator plate marks and the crank case mark (which should NOT be lined up as it came out here). Perhaps you all have it nearly the same way but calling it different.
I really would appreciate a few hoons making that picture!

[gregrobo]

roll your engine to top dead center put the 250 stator plate and flywheel on line the pick up to the start of the tab on the flywheel and go from there i have to stip dads 500 soon so i will take picks of what we did and post them up will be after christmas tho

[2strokeforever]

if i compare the 2000 250 map to the 93 500 map the difference is more 14 degrees instead of 4 degrees...

read it sober and its 4

gregrobo what year ignition are you running?
rsss396 maybe im stupid but can you explain the true tdc part?

All flywheels/stator combos were mocked up on a motor and degreed and marked with true TDC.

so if i bolt a 2000 ignition on my bike without messing with it, so all the lines line up, how many degrees max advance diffrence? 4?

[Bomberpilot]

roll your engine to top dead center put the 250 stator plate and flywheel on line the pick up to the start of the tab on the flywheel and go from there i have to stip dads 500 soon so i will take picks of what we did and post them up will be after christmas tho

so 4 degrees from the point were the tab just starts to be unter/at the pickup (but is still not under it)? and then in which direction?
would be really cool with the pictures.

@2stroke: right, my mistake

things are getting clearer, slowly

[gregrobo]

im running a 01 250 ignition line up the woodruff keys in the flywheels and loook at the timing tabs thats the difference

[2strokeforever]

so 4 degrees from the point were the tab just starts to be under/at the pickup

no, 4 degrees advance from where its set by honda, it shouldnt matter where the pickup is cause the cdi is designed to work with that stator,and pickup location,once everything is bolted down the only diffrence is in the mapping, the cr 250 has 4 degrees less max advance (assuming rss mapped it right) so i advanced it 4 degrees, ill post a pic in a bit
if you were trying to run the 250 stator with the 500 cdi(it wont fit anyways) then you will have to worry about the pickup
since your running the whole thing the pickup location has nothing to do with anything.

gregrobo can you post a pic of what your running?, and how it ran in what positions, maybe im missing something?
and

[Bomberpilot]

so 4 degrees from the point were the tab just starts to be under/at the pickup

no, 4 degrees advance from where its set by honda, it shouldnt matter where the pickup is cause the cdi is designed to work with that stator,and pickup location,once everything is bolted down the only diffrence is in the mapping, the cr 250 has 4 degrees less max advance (assuming rss mapped it right) so i advanced it 4 degrees, ill post a pic in a bit
if you were trying to run the 250 stator with the 500 cdi(it wont fit anyways) then you will have to worry about the pickup
since your running the whole thing the pickup location has nothing to do with anything.

this makes perfect sense for me!

but seems like greg has a different opinion and advanced it so much that the pickup is in the same location as the stock pickup and therefore is using more advance than the stock setup has... (if it is about 10-11 degrees he advanced it it has to be about 6 degrees more advance than stock.)
so the question is if stock setup is perfect or if it is even better to advance it more than stock like greg did. and it seems like there is only one answer for it for me: I have to test it when the next summer begins... pretty hard and long time

[2strokeforever]

i wanted to figure out degrees per mm of stator plate adjusment...
.886mm = 1 degree, the stator can be adjusted 4mm each way from the stock position = +or- 4.5 degrees

so with everything lined up (the 99 all the marks line up)the 250 ignition comes out having 4 degrees less max advance, but at 8500rpm it has more than the 500 setup, so advancing it to fix he bottom might cause trouble for the top...
looks like ill have to get a vortex or maybe a 125 cdi would be a good compromise...

im guessing the 99 map is close to the 2000, so assuming rss mapping is right advancing just a hair less than all the way (no grinding) is the closest you can get, but careful it will have more advnce when our wound out... or i could be completly wrong...

does anyone have a 250 stator with the vortex? are the preprogramed maps any good?,did you make any maps?if so post up the good ones

[gregrobo]

i do but it has the stock 500 maps programed in it its the x10 switchable

[2strokeforever]

can you put 250 maps in it if you wanted to? and does the low end come back compared to just the 250 setup?
did vortex put the 500 maps in, or did you do that, is it worth it?
if it can be made to go on top like the 250 setup, and pulls off the bottom like the 500 im definatly getting it... eventualy
thanks

[seanmx57]

The software to program the maps on a MSD is free, the vortex is like $800