guidance and help.

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » January 27th, 2011, 1:43 pm

hi there as you can tell with my noob questions and posts im not long into this 500af game.

basically my 08crf450 blew ti smitherines and i want to go back to 2smokes. tried a 250 and with me been a large guy i just got ate up by everything.

so its time to look into this 500 solution

i havent a clue what generation a 2008 is called or anything.

basically i need an idiots guide to cr500afs lol.

have the options of buying myself a fully refurbed 1985 engine with carb electrics etc for 1300 GBP, then there is the option of buying myself a sidecar with a 1990 cr500 engine in it for 1000GBP, apparently it hasnt seen much action as of late and hasnt been ridden to any extent, then there is the option of buying a comlete 1988 kx500 ready to ride according to the guy at 1300GBP

the question is which do i go for? whats the best option, any hassle with either engine over the other?

now the biggest issue of all, how much has it cost everyone to do a solid conversion, dont want it ending up like this one has, as i want to keep myself intact as much as possible. i know you get what you pay for etc etc, but i need a rough idea of cost before i get into a money pit and have to walk away half way through.

this is how i dont want to end up.

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » January 27th, 2011, 2:07 pm

go with the sidecar project, the 1985 has had several updates that will cost alot to catch up to.
The KX is neat, but clumsey and crude.
Hock the 450 parts if you can, that'll take $ off the total. Buy the kit to convert it from Bean or PStoffers, simplifys geometry and has the custom machined parts finished.

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » January 27th, 2011, 2:18 pm

cheers. had thought the sidecar project would be my best way out. was thinking buy the unit, steal what i need of it then try and sell on the chasis etc.

there aint much of the 450 left, just a gearbox, head and carb. everything, and i mean everything else is in smitherines. reckon itd cost as much to put that right as it would to do a transplant and i still would be pineing after a 2stroke. no point throaing away money like

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » January 28th, 2011, 9:40 am

would i be right in assuming that a 2008 crf450 would be a gen 4 bike?

walz · Post by **walz** » January 28th, 2011, 10:23 am

2005-2008 is gen 4.

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » January 28th, 2011, 2:37 pm

thanks. has anyone a rough idea on the cost theyve experienced when building there own cr500af?

the build itself would defo be a go if i could keep the cost under £1000 GBP which at the minute works out at $1600 usdollars.

is this a realistic achievement? bearing in mind im not a fabricator and any work will have to be done by an outside source.

please say its possible. (the cost of the build, excludes the engine etc, just the modifications required.)

just so anxious to get a guideline of expected costs so i can get it underway

nmdesertrider · Post by **nmdesertrider** » January 28th, 2011, 10:31 pm

The more patient you are the cheaper it is.

Gmbond · Post by **Gmbond** » January 29th, 2011, 7:09 am

As much as you say you arent a fabricator we need to know if you are willing to do the cutting/grinding type work. That is some of the time consuming part that will cost you. The machining/bending/welding parts can be farmed out hopefully for reasonable cost.

Best advice is if you have a local motorcycle club or racing organization ask around and see if any of the guys are welders or fabricators by trade. These are usually the kind of people who will understand what you are trying to do and be willing to help you out and work with. I also find a case of beer on top of with paying what they ask can go a long way

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 6th, 2011, 2:14 am

thanks guys. yeah im defo willing to get stuck in and do as much as i can.

just noticing that most people are using the 250f frame where as im using the 450 frame, so makes getting that bit extra information a wee bit harder.

the plan in to go look at the sidecar shortly and make a bid on it. but theres no point doing this if the adaptation of the frame is going to cost me a bomb.

i was thinking that after the cost of the engine, carb and elctrics the rest of the conversion could be done for under 1K. if im right in this then it should be all systems go. but untill i can get a good idea of costs i cant take any steps as i cant afford to start it and it end up a bottomless money pit.

mxdogger · Post by **mxdogger** » February 6th, 2011, 3:00 am

mel 45 ,
there is no cost difference bettween the crf250 and crf450 frames, they both require the same mods.
The 450 frame has more room in the engine bay to work with, if you clock the motor far enough foward for good fitup with the exhaust and airbox you wont need to mod the bottom of the gas tank. doing so will also give you very good countershaft to swingarm pivot alignment.

usaully frame choice comes down to a few things,
whats the best deal on the model frame you can find ?
Are you a big hoon, 250 + lbs. ? some hoons prefer a larger frame to match their size.
And skill level or the skills of your local fitter/welder.

Note that i added fitter to the skills needed, be sure the guy your handing your frame over to has the fit-up skills needed not to mention common sense as there are plenty of jobs done that look like shit compared to the ones that have been done right.

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 6th, 2011, 3:27 am

mxdogger wrote:mel 45 ,
there is no cost difference bettween the crf250 and crf450 frames, they both require the same mods.
The 450 frame has more room in the engine bay to work with, if you clock the motor far enough foward for good fitup with the exhaust and airbox you wont need to mod the bottom of the gas tank. doing so will also give you very good countershaft to swingarm pivot alignment.

usaully frame choice comes down to a few things,
whats the best deal on the model frame you can find ?
Are you a big hoon, 250 + lbs. ? some hoons prefer a larger frame to match their size.
And skill level or the skills of your local fitter/welder.

Note that i added fitter to the skills needed, be sure the guy your handing your frame over to has the fit-up skills needed not to mention common sense as there are plenty of jobs done that look like shit compared to the ones that have been done right.

yeah i am a big hoon in that case. 253lbs. well i was doing a bit more research into fab guys, and then asked my dad. he told me who to go to for the work, as he has been in the biking circle for bout 40 years and completely forgot about him. He fixed a 125 i had that i bust the frame on it and it was good work and held for the 2/3 years i had it anyway.

atleast theres no more cost difference between the 250 and 450f frames.

i saw a few stickys with parts ready to buy, but either im half blind or there is no list of ones for the gen 4?

i see your doing a 450 yourself dogger. could i possibly ask how much fabriating mounts has cost? or if there is head stays and mounts that i can purchase ready to go, or will i have to buy the engine and exhaust etc, then get custom head stay and mounts made?

lso some people are forming a whole new cradle from the pegs forward to the Y piece, and some arent. is there any particular one is better than the other, or is it just purely cosmetic with less welds open for viewing?

again sorry about the noob questions, but was told ask as many questions as possible no moatter how daft they sound. Afterall it will be the first time ive ever "built" a bike.

mxdogger · Post by **mxdogger** » February 6th, 2011, 3:45 am

Mel 45, I am modding frames to sell. I have done both, crf250 frame and the 450 frame.
If you want to get by on the cheap do the cut and splice job, reusing the old motor mounts. Seems no one is having a problem with strength on those conversions, It doesnt look as nice as the full cradle replacement.

If you do the full cradle replacement you will need new motor mounts, some form of modded headstay and of course the frame rails.

As for the guy to go to, that phraze has been used here many times before with bad results. Find someone that has done this kind of work before otherwise its a gamble on what you will be getting back.

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 6th, 2011, 4:25 am

mxdogger wrote:Mel 45, I am modding frames to sell. I have done both, crf250 frame and the 450 frame.
If you want to get by on the cheap do the cut and splice job, reusing the old motor mounts. Seems no one is having a problem with strength on those conversions, It doesnt look as nice as the full cradle replacement.

If you do the full cradle replacement you will need new motor mounts, some form of modded headstay and of course the frame rails.

As for the guy to go to, that phraze has been used here many times before with bad results. Find someone that has done this kind of work before otherwise its a gamble on what you will be getting back.

i was basing that "guy to go to" on the fact he fixed a frame of a bike for me before that split and had no issues with it. hes also modded a few supermoto bikes. a top fabricator for sure, and i trust his work.

mxdogger · Post by **mxdogger** » February 6th, 2011, 4:38 am

Mel sounds like you have the right Guy, lol. just trying to watchout for the new guys getting frames done, there's been some real dozzies done !

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 6th, 2011, 4:43 am

mxdogger wrote:Mel sounds like you have the right Guy, lol. just trying to watchout for the new guys getting frames done, there's been some real dozzies done !

cheers man. as i say im not goina knock any advice or tips etc. especially since well your life really hangs in the balance of the fabricators work.

just hoping what ive been dreaming off since mid summer is going to come true.

just a pity im in Northern Ireland limits choices etc a bit. ah well itl be the first and only one in the country

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 7th, 2011, 1:11 pm

mmmmmm back to the engine side of things again.

does the 85 engine require any mods to get it to fit? been talking over the two engine choices with my dad, and hes been telling me that hed be more inclined to go with the 85 engine. i can throw up a ebay link here and a link of the other prospect. perhaps this could help.

oh and ive been discusing the formation of the cradle. is there any benefit of doing a whole cradle from pegs forward over the half cradle with inserts? as many opinions as possible may help me out here.

again sorry bout asking so many questions which probably seem daft to you experienced hoons

_mel_45_ · Post by **_mel_45_** » February 7th, 2011, 1:13 pm

85 engine

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1985-Honda-CR-500 ... 2eb2ba775e

sidecar option

http://www.nisidecarcross.com/sales.htm ( the second one on the page)

KE 336 · Post by **KE 336** » February 8th, 2011, 5:37 am

You will need the engine bushings bored or replaced to accept the larger swingarm bolt on the 85 motor.
As for full cradle vs spliced, you could get lots of opinions on that and this is just mine. While the full cradle looks better, I wouldn't do it unless you had the means to anneal the new tubing before forming and re-age after.

juddy · Post by **juddy** » February 8th, 2011, 6:37 am

This should help you a bit.Pretty much has all the info you need. Shaggy/Bean in Australia are making alloy adapters for the airbox. Or you can buy the whole kit from them. No doubt there are others in the US. Just bought some Gen 1 mounts from pstoffers and they look sweet,havent got around to fitting them yet though ( thanks Paul ).

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/ ... conversion

BannedCR500Riders.com

guidance and help.

guidance and help.