Barnet cr500 dirt digger clutch

Darrell262 · Post by **Darrell262** » May 25th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Hi, I have a 98cr500 steel frame.

The stock clutch started slipping abit. I looked at the fibers and they looked brand new. I bought the barnet clutch fibers and they looked as thick as the stock ones, mind you I think the barnet ones are cork type plates.

After putting it all together and running it, I found the clutch springs insanely strong (says 10% stiffer then stock)

And the worse thing is. The clutch drags all the time. I've run this bike for a while now. I even swapped out 3 clutch springs for the stock ones cause my hand would get sore abit from the stiff springs.

Is there a way to stop the clutch drag? When the bike is cold and I start it. I have rev the bike hold the front brakes and put it in first gear. The bike wants to pull forward really bad, and I can ride it in 1st and 2nd gear with the clutch fully in for a while untill the bike warms up and then the clutch will slip enough that it won't move in first gear.

But the bike does drag still all the time and its tuff to trail ride sometimes in tight spots.

Any ideas? I was thinking of putting the stock clutch plates back in and just putting the stiff springs back in..

If I put car oil in the tranny would that make it slip more enough to stop the drag?

Post by **AlisoBob** » May 25th, 2009, 2:33 pm

What your describing is usually a worn ( notched) clutch basket.

Do you know what I'm referring to?

Darrell262 · Post by **Darrell262** » May 25th, 2009, 2:54 pm

Yeah my old cr250 had a notched clutch basket, but my cr500 didn't have almost any marks on it.

It did it as soon as I installed it, where as the old clutch didn't.

I am going to take it apart soon so I'll re check the clutch basket. but if theres anything anyone else can think of before I open it up.

I am probely going to re try my stock cluch plates, and install the retarted strong cluch springs, and run dirt bike oil in it again (I ran car oil in the tranny with the stock honda clutch cause I was cheap)

Stock clutch would slip in 5th gear pinned and I am willing to bet it was slipping abit climbing hills

I am poor right now

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » May 25th, 2009, 2:58 pm

if you mix and match different brand plates, there might be a stack height issue. im not sure if barnett fibers work with oem aluminums. might want to do some measuring. 30wt car oil isnt your problem

also: the book has a spec for the fiber thickness. usually you can see when theyre toast but you can measure them to what the book says.

Post by **AlisoBob** » May 25th, 2009, 3:37 pm

100hp honda wrote: 30wt car oil isnt your problem

yup.....

How much freeplay are you running?

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » May 25th, 2009, 10:12 pm

dewayne used to warn me abotu the direction the plates face. I never thought it made a difference, but since we are shooting in the dark here

anyway, since the plates are stamped out, there is a sharp and a rounded side. rounded side down.

it really does sounds like a notched basket, or even a notched center hub, w/ steel plates, they can get notched too.

Darrell262 · Post by **Darrell262** » May 26th, 2009, 6:29 am

I don't think I checked the plate sides, but that makes alot of sense. When I pull it apart I'll check the plates to see if they are all the right way up

I'll take some pictures of the basket and hub and plates etc as well.

If it is a notched basket, why would it really grab when its cold (clutch leaver all the way in) and then once its warmed up it drags alot less?

Like I said before, when cold, I can ride it in 1st and 2nd gear with the clutch fully in and it will move untill it warms up and then it wont have enough friction to keep it moving.

The Barnet clutch has 2 modes. fully engaged or dragging all the time waiting to be fully engaged. Theres no half in and out.
Mind you when its 'in' its really in and theres no way in hell its going to slip

Going camping this weekend, I'll try to take it apart next week and toss some pictures up, see what you guys figure. I hope the basket isn't notched up. I don't really like filing that stuff.

Oh yeah the free play. It doesn't matter, its like this.
I can run the cable slack, and it drags like a sob, I can tighten the cable, and it drags the same
I know I am getting enough lever action because I can pull my leaver in and its 1-2mm from the handle bar and thats the end of the travel on the clutch.

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 10:25 am

I have exactly the same problem but mine doesn't drag near as much as yours does when cold. I have a brand new hinson clutch basket, brand new oem inner hub, my original 93 pressure plate, barnett heavy springs which measure the same resting length as the stock springs.

I called Hinson to find out what the clutch pack total thickness should be. They say their clutch pack measures 1" .364 thousands. I have stock honda fibers and had stock honda steel plates as well. My clutch pack measured 1" .300 thousands. I bought the stock aluminum plates and measured the total clutch pack thickness and it now is 1" 345 thousands.

They said the clutch pack thickness can be over but not under. I will measure my fibers and see it they match what the service manual says.

With the stock honda fiber and aluminum plates installed, and the clutch lever free play between 3/8-3/4" like the manual says, when you put the bike in gear, most any gear, pull the clutch in and try to roll it, the tire is locked up tight. I have to get it up on a stand and really pull on the tire to get the inner hub to spin, the clutch is not fully disinguaging. This is probably my clutch slippage issue as the clutch heats up. You can adjust the clutch cable fully lose or completely tightened and it still does the same thing.

I am going to get a new clutch cable since it appears maybe the cable is stretched to a point where you can't adjust it but I'm wondering if the probem is not a thick enough clutch pack?

I also have a brand new clutch accuator and the rod that goes with it.

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » May 26th, 2009, 12:26 pm

just my opinion here, but i dont think putting the bike in gear and trying to roll it is a good indicator of how well the clutch is working. my tire wont spin 100% freely when the motor isnt running and in gear, but the clutch is working perfect otherwise. maybe inner hub bearing is letting the basket wobble and bind up, or the thrust washer between the basket and hub is no good. just a guess here but if your basket isnt grooved or inner hub isnt grooved, the only other possibility thats making it "creep" is the stack height is some how out of whack.

on one bike i have: honda basket, honda inner hub, honda pressure plate, honda fiber/aluminums, ebc springs. this clutch works fabulous

on my other bike i have: hinson basket, honda inner hub, honda pressure plate, honda fibers/aluminums, ebc springs. this clutch also works fabulous

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » May 26th, 2009, 12:35 pm

I think the clutch cable is the best idea yet... CR500s eat clutch cables for lunch, I've thrown out a pile of bound up and stretched out clutch cables. you just added more spring tension, so that is all that makes sense. I've never seen a failure out of the clutch basket bearing, I have seen the thrust washer get stuck, but that easy to check, just pull out the clutch and spin the inner hub, if it spins freely, all is good.

one thing to really check, is make sure you don't have a '86-'89 clutch setup. count the plates and fibers in the old clutch you pulled and make sure they match. the older ones used one less of each. if that was the case, you should just be able to remove one of each and run it.

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 1:35 pm

this is my first motorcycle in a long while but I have and still own 250r quads. The one I have is a 431 cc Puma so it's similar in bore to my 500. I know that just pulling the clutch in and then trying to push the machine isn't really a test and I know it's a quad so there is more rotating mass there to spin the clutch but I can pull in the clutch and push the bike in first gear. The inner hub is running free of basket. I know when I go to start the 500 it's going to creep forward in gear.

I have a 90-01 basket and inner hub, just got back from the honda shop I ordered everything at and they looked back to see what I got, correct inner hub, and plates. I don't have the old stuff, it's been almost 1 year since I replaced everything. If I had a earlier model basket, I couldn't get 8 fibers and 7 metal plates in the basket.

I feel like a complete idiot since this is the biggest stumper I have ever had. The 250r's you just slap a clutch in and go, even on the high HP ones I have.

How easy do the stock pressure plates warp on these things? I haven't ever had a stock 250r pressure plate become warped on the bigger 250r's I have built in the past.

Have a new cable, will put it on and see what happens.

Post by **AlisoBob** » May 26th, 2009, 1:48 pm

The aluminum drive plates can warp, and cause "pushing" issues... Other than that the CR500 clutch is pretty straight foreword, and trubble free....

You'll get it sorted out....

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 2:48 pm

in the 90-01 honda service manual in the clutch section on the first page in the parts diagram (picture of the assembly) it shows a picture of the clutch accuator, the part the the cable hooks to, with a return spring. There is a hole for one end of a spring to mount to. Does anyone have this spring on their bike? Mine doesn't and Honda doesn't show a part number for this return spring or any spring on the parts microfiche.

Just another shot I guess.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » May 26th, 2009, 2:51 pm

the '89 and older bikes had the spring, in '90 w/ the new throw out bearing, they got rid of the spring.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » May 26th, 2009, 2:52 pm

if the cable was too lose, the spring would cause the arm to gouge the push rod.

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Danny, good to know on the spring deal. One thing of note, I did replace the rod as well because it was gouged at the end that it rides on the accuator. Maybe this cable thing is the problem. I will find out, I have a new cable and I will see it that's it. It's been on there since 1993 my guess so it's probably seen it's service life.

100hp honda · Post by **100hp honda** » May 26th, 2009, 4:08 pm

i thought of another thing you might check. lever and perch. because the lever is a pivot point, doesnt it dictate how far the cable will be pulled ? seems like a lever could wear down and not pull the cable far enough, ive never seen it happen but it makes sense.

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 4:17 pm

when I bought the bike it had a gay aftermarket clutch lever and perch on it and it was broken. I put a new stock honda clutch perch and lever on it.

Post by **AlisoBob** » May 26th, 2009, 4:17 pm

This is the best lever to buy.... period.

http://www.xrsonly.com/content/index.ph ... &Itemid=89

It has a roller bearing for the pivot, fits stock Honda perches...... With a new cable, it has perfect "feel"..... I keep threatning to throw my Magura away, and go back to this set up.

I really like it ..... for $20... its a no brainer.....

LOVEMYCR500 · Post by **LOVEMYCR500** » May 26th, 2009, 4:20 pm

roller bearing, nice. Will have to keep that in mind.

boostdoctor · Post by **boostdoctor** » July 3rd, 2009, 11:39 pm

dannygraves wrote:I think the clutch cable is the best idea yet... CR500s eat clutch cables for lunch, I've thrown out a pile of bound up and stretched out clutch cables. you just added more spring tension, so that is all that makes sense. I've never seen a failure out of the clutch basket bearing, I have seen the thrust washer get stuck, but that easy to check, just pull out the clutch and spin the inner hub, if it spins freely, all is good.

one thing to really check, is make sure you don't have a '86-'89 clutch setup. count the plates and fibers in the old clutch you pulled and make sure they match. the older ones used one less of each. if that was the case, you should just be able to remove one of each and run it.

I have an '86 motor. It has 7 fibers. What parts will I need to convert to the newer 8 clutch setup? I think I will really benefit from an extra fiber. Also are the clutch plates the same in both setups?

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » July 4th, 2009, 2:36 pm

I've run both, minimal advantage on the newer one and I think that was just because of the better throw out bearing. to convert, you need the right side cover and clutch cover from a '90+, the 90+ clutch center hub, basket, pushrod and bearing. they use the same outside pressure plate.
your coolant hose rounting will get interestign too. unless your basket/hub are toast, its not really worth switching.

BannedCR500Riders.com

Barnet cr500 dirt digger clutch

Barnet cr500 dirt digger clutch