Torque importance

kkvslayer · Post by **kkvslayer** » November 6th, 2008, 8:56 am

just wondering How many of you use a torque wrench,is it really needed,besides the chance of breaking bolts what are the downfalls of not using one,I bought one shortly after I got my 500 but have tried it only once,I tried it on my head nuts but they seemed so loose so I just tightened them more and havn't touched the wrench since

Post by **AlisoBob** » November 6th, 2008, 9:09 am

A 1/2 " wrench is shorter than a 1" wrench. There is a reason for it.

The legnth is set to guess-ta-mate the torque the mechanic will impose on the nut or bolt.

If you use the correct wrench, thats about the right torque.

Long breaker bars, and cheater pipes dont apply...

britincali · Post by **britincali** » November 6th, 2008, 9:25 am

I only torque the head.

teemtrubble · Post by **teemtrubble** » November 6th, 2008, 9:27 am

britincali wrote:I only torque goat head.

Yeah we know

Post by **AlisoBob** » November 6th, 2008, 9:33 am

britincali · Post by **britincali** » November 6th, 2008, 9:35 am

^^^^ Now THATS a smiley!!!!!!

kkvslayer · Post by **kkvslayer** » November 6th, 2008, 10:16 am

The one time i did use it on the head they just seemed way too loose for my liking

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » November 6th, 2008, 10:46 am

when I was a mechanic I wanted to torque everything to spec, but I had some old guys there who taught me with their many years experience.
I crank them until the feel right. Justin talks shit about that, but after a while you get the feel. just like car wheel bearings and steering stem bearings, you learn to feel the bearing seat instead of following retarded instructions to torque to 10 ftlbs, then back off, then torque to 5 lbs, the turn out 1/4 turn, or whatever.
Like Bob was saying the ratchet length is that way for a reason. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet on all those m6 tread and m8 thread bolts and thats a good way to avoid accidentally ripping some threads out of the case.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » November 6th, 2008, 10:47 am

britincali wrote:I only torque the head.

sounds like you should just impact the head on!

kkvslayer · Post by **kkvslayer** » November 6th, 2008, 11:01 am

dannygraves wrote:when I was a mechanic I wanted to torque everything to spec, but I had some old guys there who taught me with their many years experience.
I crank them until the feel right. Justin talks shit about that, but after a while you get the feel. just like car wheel bearings and steering stem bearings, you learn to feel the bearing seat instead of following retarded instructions to torque to 10 ftlbs, then back off, then torque to 5 lbs, the turn out 1/4 turn, or whatever.
Like Bob was saying the ratchet length is that way for a reason. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet on all those m6 tread and m8 thread bolts and thats a good way to avoid accidentally ripping some threads out of the case.

ya I learned to use the 1/4" ratchet when I snapped one of the bolts on my inner hub last yr with the 1/2",I've been working on all my stuff myself for a while now so I got a pretty good feel for when something is tight enough

Post by **AlisoBob** » November 6th, 2008, 12:34 pm

kkvslayer wrote:they just seemed way too loose for my liking

On any bolt, you tighten it to stretch it.

The tension of the stretch is what keeps the nut tight.

Once you exceed the fasteners stretch limit, it goes plastic.. meaning there is no rebound left.

Its that feeling when you tighten something down... and its getting harder anfd harder...... and then starts to get easy again!!!!!

Go by whats recomended... not by how it feels.

JBaze · Post by **JBaze** » November 6th, 2008, 2:19 pm

AlisoBob wrote:
kkvslayer wrote:they just seemed way too loose for my liking
On any bolt, you tighten it to stretch it.

The tension of the stretch is what keeps the nut tight.

Once you exceed the fasteners stretch limit, it goes plastic.. meaning there is no rebound left.

Its that feeling when you tighten something down... and its getting harder anfd harder...... and then starts to get easy again!!!!!

Go by whats recomended... not by how it feels.

I have had the same problem through the years. Overtightening and breaking the bolt, the wrench or my nuckels! I finally bought a Craftsman digitorque torque wrench and torqued all the bolts on mr CR and XR. After I was done with each, I was feeling like the bolts were still way too loose, but went against what I thought and just ran them, torqued to spec and have never had a problem. Rob129 and I talked about this a little and he made a good point especially on the engine, when it gets warmed and cooled it will actually get tighter and over torqueing can actually be pretty bad for the bolts.

http://www.youtube.com/user/500bigbore · Post by **Roostius_Maximus** » November 6th, 2008, 3:07 pm

in my shop wreches are checked against wrenches weekly, digital is never correct, and the dudes that made the snap-on (not snap-on) 3/8 wrench knew what they were dooing, we stil buy them from the manufacturer, i cant remember who that is at the moment. They're out almost every 2 months.

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » November 6th, 2008, 3:11 pm

Roostius_Maximus wrote:in my shop wreches are checked against wrenches weekly, digital is never correct, and the dudes that made the snap-on (not snap-on) 3/8 wrench knew what they were dooing, we stil buy them from the manufacturer, i cant remember who that is at the moment. They're out almost every 2 months.

yeah, those snap-on ones that can be calibrated are the shiznitz!

CRMOE500 · Post by **CRMOE500** » November 6th, 2008, 3:20 pm

Just tighten it until it strips then back it off a quarter turn. The newly stripped threads help to hold the bolt in place...

!

JBaze · Post by **JBaze** » November 6th, 2008, 4:05 pm

My digitorque isn't digital it's just the name. We used those digital type for torqueing the bolts on the piledrivers we built some went as high as 3500 ftlbs! When the calibration was checked the digitals were off by as much as 20%! After that, we switched to torque multiplier and Snap On mechanical alot more work but much more accurate. Then we got smart and bought a hydraulic torque wrench good for 6000lbs! Thats f-ing tight!

ISBB · Post by **ISBB** » November 6th, 2008, 5:44 pm

dannygraves wrote:
Roostius_Maximus wrote:in my shop wreches are checked against wrenches weekly, digital is never correct, and the dudes that made the snap-on (not snap-on) 3/8 wrench knew what they were dooing, we stil buy them from the manufacturer, i cant remember who that is at the moment. They're out almost every 2 months.
yeah, those snap-on ones that can be calibrated are the shiznitz!

i have a 3/8's and 1/4" drive snap on torque wrenchs... nice pieces for sure..

hoofarted · Post by **hoofarted** » November 7th, 2008, 9:34 am

Speaking of "stretch" - the factory head bolts on most any VW (water cooled) all stretch. It is kinda weird following the instructions to torque to 40ft-lbs, then 60, then 80. When all are at 80, add another 1/2 turn!

I always got nervous doing that last 1/2 turn! Now I run ARP studs...no more of that!

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » November 7th, 2008, 9:40 am

those are torque-to-yeild bolts, the stock starion head bolts were the same and the reason I blew that head gasket doing a 90+ mph archibald run

The ARPs took care of that.
BTW, torque-to-yeild bolts are not reusable and need to be replaced everytime they are used. That the reason a lot of toyotas and isuzus got the rep for repeatedly blowing head gaskets, the mechainics didn't replace the bolts and the head would lift.

Freemer · Post by **Freemer** » November 8th, 2008, 1:25 am

One uses a torque wrench for a reason to get in range .. but each bolt has a differnt tolerance ..and you have to "feel" them and know just how much they can take. I have done this for many years without fail.

I put a dab of pipe thread (plumbing) compound on the thread of each jug stud and head stud to prevent them from locking in and I use all new studs and I also have each head stud and base stud Irridited from a chromer to put a nice coating on each stud. And since then I never had a problem with them sticking and can always remove them because they are STEEL and your Jug/Head is Aluminum. Dissimilar metals will corrode bad.

I double NUT each STUD and drive it in place.

Old snapping studs had one only after I ran Meth for a couple yrs...the CR500 is very bulletproof.. I did warp the base of the mill and jug after running methanol in my CR500 quad for 4 yrs ..that is another story ...

It works for me.

I agree completely

dannygraves wrote:when I was a mechanic I wanted to torque everything to spec, but I had some old guys there who taught me with their many years experience.
I crank them until the feel right. Justin talks shit about that, but after a while you get the feel. just like car wheel bearings and steering stem bearings, you learn to feel the bearing seat instead of following retarded instructions to torque to 10 ftlbs, then back off, then torque to 5 lbs, the turn out 1/4 turn, or whatever.
Like Bob was saying the ratchet length is that way for a reason. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet on all those m6 tread and m8 thread bolts and thats a good way to avoid accidentally ripping some threads out of the case.

Wheelie-Gene · Post by **Wheelie-Gene** » November 10th, 2008, 8:16 pm

Just like Danny said, I can feel the stretch when things get tight.
My moosh-brain friends are the ones that are always stripping and twisting shit off.

What I like the most is having to remove all the philips headed bolts on a clutch/stator cover. The ones where every head is stripped out.
They should have brought it in for repair after they stripped the first one....but to sit there and strip 5 more is beyond my irrational thought.

Hammer-actuated impact drivers are a must-have item, for use on those old scooters.

Since we are talking nuts and bolts. Maybe one of you engineers can shead some thought on load bearing and sheer bearing bolts.

4Z · Post by 4Z » November 10th, 2008, 9:24 pm

Pappy always said, "a good cross thread is better than safety wire"

britincali · Post by **britincali** » November 10th, 2008, 9:26 pm

dannygraves · Post by **dannygraves** » November 10th, 2008, 10:17 pm

Dakota Boy · Post by **Dakota Boy** » November 17th, 2008, 10:42 am

Our Maintenance Mgr has a sign in his office:

"If it doesnt fit, FORCE it. If it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyways."

BannedCR500Riders.com

Torque importance

Torque importance

Yes