Ok lets get the "REAL" riders opinions on this tread, but feel free to post your 10cents worth if you feel you can contribute to the debate.
So whether you race MX, Enduro, Desert, Flat track, ice, motard, even those long swing armed hill climbing monsters ... preferably with a 500cc 2 stroke in it still.
Im biased, as ive always race/rode CR's both in 250 & 500 form,
so i recon that they handle & eat up the bumps better then CRF's. ( yeh yeh suspension - blah blah blah )
Ive rode most 4pokes from 2005 on, as i worked as a bike sales man for a time .... 4 pokes aint all that bad, they just dont suit my riding style, i loved a trade in Hushy TE something ... that stood out for me in single track work.
So if we can concentrate purely on the AF of choice with relitivley standard suspension, any one can spend a packet on any bikes suspension to get it to work with a bottomless wallet.
My daily ride since 1997 has been my G-1 CR250 ... every one will bag its hard seat & ride ... i spent the $$$$ & it works for me but alot of newer bikes are plusher to ride but i love my G-1 ..... shall we begin.
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
Any gen 3 or 4 will make a good bike. The key to any bike old or new is to make the suspension work for the type of riding you do most. I have a CR, CRF and 125 chassis bike. I like the 125 because it is different than most you see. The gen 3 250 chassis feels almost the same and I like that it is the most stock-like of them ( tank ,Y and airbox ). The CRF bike is also fun to ride and feels very similar, maybe a longer feel than the 125. I like that all the gen 4 plastic is current. Having ridden a 97 CR250 when it was new, I can say, there is a huge difference between even a gen 2 bike.
The gen1 I loved, absolutely loved.... It was stiff yes, but always went where you steered it, and was an awesome ice racing bike.... Held a line inside of everything (had a WER steering damper for ice)
Gen2 I raced enduros on for 5-6 years I think.... It was a natural switch from the gen1, now that said I never went back and tried another gen1 again. Everything just felt better,
The gen3 feels like it will turn inside of everything else and yet is stable at speed, I also have been running a wer damper at all times on this bike, however my gen3 500 I don't have a damper on and it seems to track as well as the 250 with the damper. I think it's the flywheel inertia or something but it truly goes so stable it's unreal.
My suspension was bone stock on the 97, and I was a younger more novice rider then, the 2001 and 2006 both were valved and sprung for me.
I have ridden and raced every year CR250 and 500 since 92. I switched
to CRFs in 04 then back to CRs in 07.
I used OE Showas that were valved and sprung for my weight and speed
until 2000 when I switched to the Showa A Kit suspension, so all the bikes
had the benefit of good to very good suspension
Talking frames and linkage ratios only, the early steelies (92 and 93 250)
and the last gen 4s were the absolute best and are very close in overall
performance. The steelie 500s were all a generation before and based
on a frame design that dated back to 85, I believe, so they were never
in the hunt.
When I was choosing a frame for my CR500, I settled on the 08 CRF250R
because it was smaller and had geometry similar to the early 90s CR250s.
I don't think I could have made a better choice.
So far, I'm not impressed with the gen 5 frames. Honda went overboared
with the super steep rake and trail numbers and the "stink bug" effect is
back.
Ass end high like your sag was set at 50mm not 108mm where it should be.
They feel like that when the sag is right so they steer to sharp, wander at speed on straights, nervous in general.
keep in mind dogger315 is an ex pro and capable at running at speeds on a MX track that would sent most hoons home to moma sucking their thumb. Folks that run at that speed have a different interpretation of "good" handling compared the masses.
A well sorted gen 2 in the right hands can hang with most any bike out there on a MX track. MXA test rider Willy Musgrave proved that at the world vet championship last year at Glen Helen.
True enough about Mr. Musgraves. Now that he has a new model bike to ride, you do not him on the gen 2 bike at all. Makes you think they have gotten better.
cmotodad wrote:True enough about Mr. Musgraves. Now that he has a new model bike to ride, you do not him on the gen 2 bike at all. Makes you think they have gotten better.
So is he 2strokn or 4 pokn
"not speeding officer".....qualifying
CR250 97
CR500 AF 99 (in progress)
CR500 AF CR G-4
CR500 1985 true legend
RGV250 96 X2
GSXR600 07 TRACK BIKE
VH Commadore cup car (race)
Gen 1s - quite widely, regarded as one of the worst frames / bikes ever made, by Any manufacturer.
In 97, 4 of my mates, and I, promptly put 500s into the new 250 AF. Within a couple of months we had All gone back to the steel frame. I kept mine, as I got another 500 steelie. I got it to work well (as a 500, it was much better than it was as a 250 ) - but it took a lot of work. I've still got it, in another state, in mothballs.
Sorry if that offends some, but that's how it was / is for me. They are a very old design now, at the very beginning of Hondas AF development.
Gen 2s, I know Nothing of - never done one, never ridden one, but they were substantially changed from the Gen 1s.
Gen3 250 2t chassis. - lovely things. A mate I owe a lot to, has 'my bike' ,as he calls it. That and the Gen 1 make, for me, good historic bookends to 2t AF era 500s
Gen3 4ts - take or leave them.
Gen 4s - same thing.
Gen 5s - not bad at all! 450 specific, so far I've experimented with full cradles, and various plate front engine mounts, with a few blokes I know well, and value / and who I can decipher their input. 5s have got close to the 'feel' of a good steel frame. Nice bikes. And, with the continued 'dickheads who don't take care of a Race bike' source of rollers - an affordable way of having a modern bike.
I'm not a fan of 250f based AFs, for several reasons. Once again, no offense to those who have, and like them. It's just my preference.
We still, pay a fair amount for Good AF rollers here in Oz - it's rare to see the screaming deals I see that come up in the US. With the amount of CRFxs around, I thought / hoped / hope that this may change, but the wreckers who get a hold of them, know the value of parts.....
Late model steelies, were very well developed bikes - they may have stagnated for over a decade, but they were very well sorted. It's just that most of them are Very old / hammered, by now. Well set up suspension, with a nod towards late model parts, is the key - of course, only if the rest of the bike is in fine fettle.
But that's the case for many AFs, people buy, and make, especially the 1s, 2s, and early 3s.
As I said at the start, it's what You Like, and have well sorted for yourself, and well maintained, that counts.
For that reason, my 'rider', when I can ride, is my Much modified CRE500, bought new in 2003. It's the perfect 500, for my riding, and I continue to make it 'more perfect', for me, all the time.
But AFs, if you get the roller for a good price, are far cheaper to make, than what I've done to my 500, for the average bloke.
As for the various 'manufacturers' of AFs, there was a brilliant Brit comedy series, that had a regular skit, called "I saw you coming", that I think is very appropriate, at times.
I can't wait to see the BS / Drivel that will arise when the company, that I suspect, has secured an exclusive 500 EFI deal, from HGT (or others?), brings the out their "Spectacular New EFI AF". Self aggrandisement / hero worship, will be that deep, you will probably drown in it. And it will make the kits, much more expensive, for those that deem it worthwhile / desirable, with the addition of a 'middlemans' tprofit o the purchase price.
Only rode a guys 97 250 and it was a NIGHTMARE. In Calgary Ab on Carlsbad blue groove track if ever there was one. Rode it back to back with my 97 steely. Got off it and said "Get thing this fuckin thing AWAY from me! Death on 2 wheels". Having said that, I love the looks of those years. After putting an Ohlins shock on my 04 thats not even valved for my 260 lb ass, Id like to see what a full Ohlins or A-kit setup and and 18 rear wheel would do for one of those bikes.
OK Guys,
Here is the scoop. Dogger is right on the money. Having ridden and tested stock and modified OE suspension, we recently found our first A kit suspension. We found what we think is a good deal and put it on our 125/500. Mind you this has not even been completely setup for us, the stuff is absolutely amazing. It took a well setup 500 and made it the most fun bike my son or I have ever ridden. All the small oddities of the 500 are all but eliminated. The turning is so precise and the botttoming characteristics make me wonder why I did not do this many years ago. It makes you feel so safe when you hit the stuff that would normally make you cringe. My hat is off to Dogger for the most helpful tip anyone has shared with me.
